OK… I came across this article and it kinda made my blood boil. I actually couldn’t believe what I was reading and how the PUA is trying to be betrayed by certain journalists out there. After reading it, it became quite clear that the person who wrote this was truly coming from a place of ego and lack of research into the world in which he chose to try and destroy!
I’m not sure about most of you guys but I always thought the whole point of being a journalist was to research your information and then write about your findings without prejudice? I guess not. It seems that every media outlet now has a political agenda and only hire people who at best try to slam whatever doesn’t fit into their narrow minded field of vision.
In the article they decided to talk about LMR. That’s last minute resistance for those of you guys who aren’t familiar with pick-up lingo. LMR on it’s own is actually a quite interesting phenomena and it’s something that even if the community wasn’t helping men with by giving them ideas and tips it would be very commonplace in almost every man’s mind on planet earth to try and plow through a woman giving token resistance to HER SEXUAL URGES!
BUT… When I see that there are people out there who want to call a mans primal desire for sex and trying to get laid a form of RAPE (Yup… You read it correctly) that I go crazy!
FUCKING RAPE?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Are you kidding me???
Well… They like to refer to it as rape culture or grey rape (Now they even have a politically correct term for rape)! I’m not sure about you, but I’ve met thousands of guys in the community and not one of them is even close to rapist! Are you?
I’m sorry but even if there was no pick-up community men will be men and men will try to get laid no matter what. If she’s kissing him and there’s some grinding of body parts going on and then she says we should stop and he does and then 10mins later it starts up again and the next time she says to herself “Fuck it, I’m horny. I’m going to have sex.” why is that considered rape? Ohhhhhh… Because, no means no? When women and men all know that there’s a difference in the types of NO’s you will get or give.
If a woman says NO and then you forcefully make her do sexual acts without consent than that’s rape in my book. If she’s crying and begging you to stop and you still don’t, that’s definitely rape. Rape in it’s true meaning is a vile disgusting thing and the guys who do this to women or men should be locked away forever but maybe because you studied PUA and dating advice it will be you who gets locked up?
If the two of you are attracted to each other and she concedes to willingly have sex in any way shape or form, IT’S NOT RAPE!!!!!
I had a great conversation with my girl last night about this and I asked her this… “When I’m not in the mood to have sex(which is rare but does happen) and you keep pushing me and trying to get me hard and I keep saying no and then finally give in(willingly) are you raping me?” to which she replied “no”. I then asked her this… “Now that you know exactly what turns me on and what doesn’t and after “learning” in the past months of what you should do like lick my neck, talk dirty, bite my nipples, etc. and you employ what you’ve “learned” would you consider it as manipulation or rape when I finally give in?” She said no way! So, my question is this, why is it all of a sudden rape in a different context or rape because you learned it from a book? She said because we know each other…. Hmmmmmm…. I then asked her, “Doesn’t no mean no regardless of how well you know a person?” She said yes! So, is it rape? She said no because you consented and if you really didn’t want me to keep trying you should have kept your pants on! EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!
This article puts all the blame on MEN and none on the woman. Where is she in all of this? She willingly consented to having sex and just because the guy tried a little harder to get her extra hot and horny and she complied with his advances it’s now rape????? Oh…. She brought him home into her house and what, she didn’t expect him to try a few times? Please!!!! When in reality she brought him or went into his house because deep down she was horny and knew that if things happen and she gets turned on enough she’d have sex!
What the fuck is going on with this planet? Really?
When are some women going to finally take responsibility for their actions and stop blaming everything and everyone else but themselves?
Read the article here…. S.E. Smith
Are Pickup Artists Contributing to Rape Culture?
Much of the language around surrounds the idea that women put up “token resistance,” encouraging PUAs to not take resistance and requests to stop seriously.
Pick up artists (PUAs) have been working the field for, well, since forever, but the Internet has really helped them along; now they can exchange tips on forums and websites, sell DVDs and books and offer tips in podcasts and pretty much any other fora you can imagine. They even have their own reality television shows, and their own unique insider slang. They’re determined to position themselves as players, and the game pieces are women.
Anna North raises an important question, though: Do widely discussed, promoted, and reproduced PUA techniques cause rape?
I’d argue that they definitely contribute to a culture of what some people call “gray rape,” those situations that can be difficult to express or define for the women who experience them; for example, a women doesn’t feel like she’s been raped because she didn’t firmly object to sex, or a woman is uncomfortable with calling what she experienced “rape.”
Obviously, PUA tips alone can’t be the sole cause of a complex cultural problem, but they’re a contributing factor, and that makes them important to examine.
The infamous Reddit rape thread certainly featured some examples of PUAs who used tried-and-true techniques to rape women, and in some cases didn’t necessarily recognize it as such until after the fact. PUA techniques focus heavily on a steadily escalating process of coercion and many come with an assumption that a man has a right to have sex with any woman he wants. Additionally, he’s less of a man if he doesn’t succeed in landing a given “catch,” which puts tremendous pressure on him to seal the deal at all costs.
Clearly, people can read PUA tips without becoming rapists. They can even identify as PUAs and use some of these techniques in the pursuit of sexual partners without engaging in rape; though I’d still argue that they are participating in a smarmy, objectifying, highly sexist culture that treats women like prizes to be won rather than human beings. That’s their choice. Women who aren’t interested in that can, in turn, choose not to have sex with them.
The problem is that so many of these tips, and indeed much of the terminology, are misogynist and directly encourage rape and boundary-crossing behavior. PUA tips provide a classic example of the kind of rape that is most difficult to identify and define. Their maintainers would firmly argue that they aren’t promoting rape, based on a flimsy and outdated notion of what rape looks like; after all, they’re not telling visitors to jump out of dark corners and sexually assault women.
They are encouraging men to use tremendous pressure to get women to sleep with them, though. Overcome “last minute resistance,” for example, with a series of coldly calculated steps intended to get a woman to cave and have sex. These steps notably don’t include an active solicitation of consent.
PUAs assure each other, for example, that women who feel uneasy about one night stands are simply conditioned to do so or acting on uncontrollable instinct and thus they need to be pushed into sex. This will surely come as a surprise to women who don’t feel uneasy at all about them and actively seek them out.
Oh, wait, those are the sluts.
Speaking of which, PUAs are fond of exchanging tips on how to deal with “anti-slut defense” (ASD):
Women’s internal mechanism to create plausible deniability before sex with a new man. It ensures that she doesn’t appear (to herself and others) that she’s too easily seduced.
Much of the language around ASD surrounds the idea that women put up “token resistance,” encouraging PUAs to not take resistance and requests to stop seriously. The idea is that it’s necessary to plow right through a partner’s inhibitions because they aren’t really serious; she’s just faking it because she wants to create a smokescreen to hide behind. Since, obviously, women who have casual sex should be embarrassed by their behavior.
“No means no” doesn’t apply here, and there’s not a lot of discussion about how PUAs are supposed to tell the difference between this so-called faux resistance and the real thing. The language used implies that all women are secretly sexually available and willing at all times and just need a little “encouragement.” Some might need a little more than others, sure, and you can buy the DVD for $29.99 if you want to know more about how to reel them in.
There is nothing, of course, in the PUA dictionary for “rape.”
Obviously, it’s possible to utilize PUA techniques without raping someone. But these techniques definitely encourage rape, and as North stresses, they set a dangerous social precedent. The structure of such techniques creates the idea that forcing women to have sex is normal, and that pressuring sexual partners is acceptable. And as these techniques spread out beyond the PUA community, they become internalized by the rest of society. In the process, they can become increasingly distorted.
When a culture judges its men on how many women they have sex with and the hotness level of their conquests, it’s inevitable that at least some men would turn to gray zones that they ultimately consider acceptable because everyone says so with the kind of advice found in PUA tips. Some of those men may not consciously realize that what they are doing is rape, and that they are committing sexual assault, not seducing willing partners.
Others are aware that they’re rapists, and they appreciate the step-by-step guides provided though PUA tips. They also appreciate, of course, the cover offered by this widespread and popular “advice,” because they can hide among ordinary PUAs and say they’re just playing the game. Thanks to the normalization of coerced sex, their victims may have difficulty discussing what happened to them, let alone reporting it to authorities who might be able to take action.
I would really love to hear your thoughts on this…. Please comment. And to all the women reading my blog, please chime in as well. I would love to hear what you have to say as well…. Thanks…